Julia Espero on Drawing Cadavers
To listen go to: https://anchor.fm/thisislaisa
Laisa: Hello, everyone. Today I have with me a new media artist, actually. And I will let her introduce herself.
Jules: Hi, my name is Julia. I go by Jules and yes, I’m a multimedia artist, new media artist, and also a designer so I do a lot of print and digital work. But I started out in illustration and just doing regular drawing and painting.
Laisa: I heard that the last place that you’ve been recently is Montana, can you tell me a little bit about that trip?
Jules: Yeah, I was in school for about nine months and then the last month was really intense. I had been seeing photos of Montana online for quite some time, like a lot of photo bloggers, just go to Montana an, photograph like the cattle herds and the mountains. And it’s gorgeous. It’s, it’s very green. So I decided after I finished school that I was just going to take a little road trip up there by myself. And I was staying on this farm for three days. And I slept in like a little sheep herder wagon, and yeah, it was a great time. They’re like piglets and Lamas of course sheep, but it was really beautiful.
Laisa: Wow. That is amazing. I just been to like major cities that I’ve never been like to the middle of the U.S. so that’s like, that’s awesome. You’re a designer now, but you studied a different major when you were in college as well. So can you talk a little bit about why you decided to study the major and why you decided to transition in design?
Jules: Yeah, definitely. So my undergraduate degree was in Urban Studies. And Urban Studies is perfect for me because, I went into college having a lot of different passions. And at first, I thought I wanted to do International Studies or maybe even Computer Science or some other type of design. And I actually went the longest I could go without deciding a major, but took a lot of Urban Studies classes. And ultimately I found that my passion for International Studies wasn’t necessarily like in learning policy at an international level, but like into human connection in like small ways that we can actually show up for each other. The ways that we can with policy. So with Urban Studies, I learned a lot about designing for accessibility and cities, and then also just ways that we can be more sustainable. And I had this really fun experience actually working with a nonprofit in New York. They design for other nonprofits and I got to work with some really cool kids and we designed a comic book and that was like the first time I really got into like physical design.
Laisa: Ooh, wait, can you tell us the name of this cool non-profit?
Jules: Yeah, they’re called the Center for Urban Pedagogy and they’re based in Brooklyn.
Laisa: Oh, that is so cool. Thank you for sharing that. I will make sure to put the link down the below for people to check it out. That sounds amazing so as a designer, I saw that you, you started as an illustrator first. I want to know a little bit about your process and I saw your work is very expressive. So where do you get that inspiration from?
Jules: Yeah. You know, we talked about travel so much before this.I actually am really inspired by other female artists. One person who comes to mind is Frida Kahlo, and I love how Frida does self-portraiture. And for a while I think for me, I actually started out with doing self-portraits. I took this class in school where it was like an anatomy drawing class. And we were in the med school drawing cadavers.
Laisa: Oh!
Jules: I know I’m going all over the place. It’s a lot of stuff. We were basically drawing and like the Renaissance styles. So old people in the Renaissance used to draw dead bodies for science, but then they realize it also helped them draw very realistically. So I was in this class and drawing a lot of dead bodies, like other people. And then I started drawing myself, just like looking in the mirror and drawing myself. And I think for a really long time, it was actually very difficult to look myself in the face for like hours on end and draw. But it became like a, a way for me to get like really comfortable with myself. And I think it’s kind of become one of the ways that like, I’ve also learned to love myself.
Laisa: Wow! That was beautiful and shocking at the same time. I don’t know.
Jules: Dead bodies.
Laisa: I know. Can you — wait so this was literally like, they were real, like you were there with them.
Jules: Yeah. They were just —
Laisa: Wait, did they take it to class or did you actually go to the place where they were?
Jules: We went to the place where they were which was like actually classroom setting. So, we had like a pretty intense med school building and in the basement, there was a dissection lab. And then just like old specimens. So, you know, things people use to like practice for surgery. So yeah, our class would finish up drawing and then the med students would come in and like practice suturing.
Laisa: Wow. So this was a drawing class you took while in college studying Urban Studies?
Jules: Yeah, exactly. And see, like, I can do things like that because I had Urban Studies, which, you know, kind of helped me create my own major in a way. So I took a lot of art classes because it was along the visual design route.
Laisa: That’s a great subject. Can you talk for the younger viewers that are watching and want to become artists or just don’t know yet what they want to do and create a new major. That concept. Can you talk a little bit about creating your major at school?
Jules: Yeah, I think it’s a really good idea, especially if you’re someone like me who has a lot of interests, a lot of passions, and, you know, I think some majors are very directly career oriented. If you want to be a bio major and maybe you’re trying to be pre-med something like that where there’s like a very specific path. I think that there’s the same thing with computer science, but even still, I think there’s a lot of freedom and being able to, you know, maybe you want to take those classes, but you don’t want to take like, computer science and physics and math, like all in the same quarter, like every single quarter. And I was that way. So I think when I was able to kind of like distill down my life goals and like some of my career goals, making my own major kind of made more sense.
Laisa: Yes. Oh yes. I am snapping my fingers to that because that is very admirable. So thank you for sharing that. And you can make your own major when you’re in school, just figure out the way and you’ve got this.
Jules: Yes, definitely. Like don’t get stuck on a single path if you don’t want that.
Laisa: Yes. Yes. Okay. So back to inspiration and studying, you studied abroad in France. And I wanted to talk a little bit about your experience in France and why did you decide to go there in the first place?
Jules: Yeah, definitely. So I also studied French while I was in college and it was just like a language requirement we had to do. and I think I actually originally chose it with the intention of wanting to study abroad in Paris. And so I studied abroad my junior year in the spring. And it was a great time. I intentionally took, a little bit less units, and I planned to take like some general education requirements while I was there. So, I took a few random classes. I took an art class, a French class and then one on cancer. And that class was really cool because we basically talked about different types of cancer, the research problems that they pose. And then we read a lot of really cool books on the subject.
Laisa: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about this cancer class? Because it sounds like something that, only a med student would do. So what were you doing in this class, Jules?
Jules: Yeah. So I mean, A lot of it was pretty cool. The professor who was teaching the class, he’s like a researcher at the university and he tended to go study abroad in Paris specifically to teach this class. Because there’s a lot of really extensive, medical museums in Paris. And, you can go and like check out the old ways that they used to do surgery and like see the classical tools that you use. One really cool thing we did was read this book, about Henrietta Lacks. And she was actually the person who was studied because she had uterine cancer and, for a long time her cells just kind of pass down through labs about like anyone really attributing them to her. And so this whole book was basically about her family and kind of telling the story beyond the cells about this woman who was a Black woman and went through a lot of life struggles, but basically solved a lot of medical issues for so many people today because we were able to study her cells.
Laisa: Wow. That sounds like an amazing class. Like, wow. If you can tell us the name of the book, I’m definitely going to link it down below. Cause I feel like we all should read this book.
Jules: Yeah, I’ll send it to you afterwards. Just so I get it correctly.
Laisa: Thank you. So how would you describe your French right now?
Jules: What was that?
Laisa: Your French. How long has it been since you were in France?
Jules: It’s not bad. I can have some conversations. It’s definitely better at times. Now, it’s not so good. I’m actually learning another language. So I can read it pretty well.
Laisa: Can you tell us about this languages?
Jules: Yeah, I’m learning Mandarin with this app called Pimsleur and it’s really cool because they play, it’s like an audio app, so they’ll have like a conversational speaker, like actually saying the words and then you repeat it. Just kind of like how a baby learns like any language.
Laisa: Ooh! Okay. Why did you choose Mandarin as the new language for you to learn?
Jules: I definitely, well, when everything gets better and we can travel, I want to go to China, Southeast Asia and yeah do that whole trip.
Laisa: So that’s one of the countries you haven’t been to yet?
Jules: Yeah. I’ve only ever been to the Philippines and in Asia, so I want to extend my horizon.
Laisa: Yes. Okay. That’s wonderful. So, based on all of this travel that you’ve made, has there been, like one country specifically that impacted you as a person and as an artist?
Jules: Yeah, all my travels have really impacted me as a person and my arts so much, I think, especially because, you know, I did a lot of this international travel when I was pretty young, I think from like age 18 until like 22. And I would just buy like really cheap plane tickets, you know, just like random ones. And, I think the most recent trip I took internationally was Japan. So I was in Tokyo for two weeks and, I just stayed in a little hostel and actually kind of had it to myself because no one was traveling around Christmas. And, I kind of navigated by myself, ate a lot of food. Went on some tours. Japan is actually, it is really a clean and very cute place. And so I found it very visually inspiring.
Laisa: Yeah. So what was it from there that kind of changed you or that kind of affected or influenced your art style or your design style?
Jules: Yeah. I think that there’s something to be said about like the time. That age I was and like the time and place in my life. So what I didn’t say is I was actually working this job in HR at this big tech company before. And it was like my first job out of college in 2018. And it was kind of meant to be like a segway into like the real world after school. I had no idea what I was going to be like, I literally kind of found out what I was going to do, like, as I was doing the job and I ended up actually quitting after three months and I moved back home. I was living in San Francisco at the time, so I kind of like had my life uprooted, you know, even after graduating from college and I went to this trip to Japan first. And then I got like one of my first freelancing gigs while I was there. I was, it was like just working with this guy who wanted to make a lookbook for his designs. And I was like, this is really fun. You know, if I could just travel and freelance, that’d be amazing.
Laisa: Was there a reason that you’re comfortable sharing why? [quit the job]
Jules: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s kind of some of the things I mentioned already. I wasn’t really passionate about the job. You know, I’m a really creative person. And the company I was working for was like, it was pretty prestigious. And so I went in with this idea that I could start from HR and then eventually get to, like a design position or something I wanted. And then you think as soon as I got there, I realized pretty quickly that that was not the intended, funnel or pathway for this role. So I did actually try to stay for a really long time. I talked to a lot of people within the company, and I did a few interviews. And I ultimately decided to leave because I was spending a lot of my money in San Francisco and not like able to save a dime. And it, it just kind of like a spur of the moment thing too, that I decided to do. I think I was 21 at the time.
Laisa: Yeah, no, I love that you shared this. And for the people that are like just recently graduated or are graduating and feel like they have to take a job just because you have to make money, it’s not always going to make you happy. So you do have to find things that are going to make you happy. So I’m snapping the fingers for you, Jules, for figuring that out so early on. So, yeah. And it’s okay for you to take this over if you need the money, but as long as you know, you know that that’s not what you want to do and you transition right away.
Jules: Yeah. I think one thing I have to add to that is if you’re in a situation where you don’t have to take a job right away, and you have a job lined up that you don’t think you’ll like. They might actually be a really good idea just to like put it off. I started my first job literally three days after I graduated and I think I would have benefited from some time just to like sleep.
Laisa: Yeah. Having some time for yourself. Another great thing. Thank you for sharing that. Was there like a project that was really challenging for you and how did you go about doing it or was there a client that was really difficult, you know? Or just like a moment that was challenging in your life, but you still had to pull yourself together and do work.
Jules: Yeah, I think, you know, that time when I quit my job, like right after school, I think that was actually a really challenging time. And I admire myself back then for, you know, taking that leap and, you know, really knowing what I wanted. I knew I wanted to pursue design and I wanted a creative career, but I didn’t know what that would look like. So I ended up coming home, like I said, and, I had some freelance gigs and they were going pretty well. I really enjoyed them. And I was like meeting a lot of contacts just through friends of friends or, you know, things that you find online. But then I had the other idea of going to design school, to like learn, to learn more. And that presented another set of challenges because, to be honest, like I, wasn’t making a ton of money at first, enough to support myself moving to New York and like living in New York and doing school. So I got a job in a restaurant. And this is the other thing too, about like a design career. I think in the beginning, a lot of people do side hustles and like side jobs that are not necessarily design oriented. And I think, initially it can be a lot of stigma against that because like, from outsiders, it’s like, what are you doing? You know, like, are you not successful enough and designed to be working full time or something like that. And, you know, whenever you make some sort of transition, I think. You kind of have to, you definitely have to work your way up. So I, you know, I quit this job I had and I was like working in a restaurant and freelancing. Yeah, that was hard. I would wake up at like 4:00 AM, go to the restaurant in New York work until 1:00 PM. Sometimes work another job until like 6:00 PM when I had class and then get out of that and do my homework. And that was like my life up until COVID.
Laisa: So you were working more than, so you had your freelance gigs as well as your other side hustle gigs?
Jules: And the interesting thing is, I started freelancing. Full-time basically when COVID hit, because I left New York and I lost my job. Like everyone did in restaurants, because like we kind of work in person and then that actually gave me the time to transition and like take on more gigs. So it was, it was kind of ironic in that way. Like I was studying to design, but it didn’t give me enough time to like actually do it. So I think that was also a learning lesson in and of itself, you know, like I did this program so I could do more design, but I also learned that. Along the way I kind of was scrappy and up to like kind of create my own opportunities.
Laisa: Yeah. Okay. Create your own opportunities. I love that. So I want to close that up with some closing advice for people that are currently struggling to find a job in design or you know, or just some encouraging words and how they can keep going or things like that.
Jules: Yeah. Just to talk on all the other stuff I said before, you don’t have to go to design school or art school to be like an amazing designer or to be ready. I think some of the best learning material you’ll find out there is the portfolios of other successful designers. So go on LinkedIn, go on Format. Or Behance. These are all like portfolio websites, like Dribbble for example, and just look at the work that is successful in doing well. And then learn from that, you know, like try to create in a similar style. And then the next thing I would say is utilize more free online resources. There’s a bunch of design tutorials on YouTube. And I think a lot of times, those are just as good as some of the programs that you know, are full-time, even a lot of really good, like cheaper design programs that are out there. And yeah, I think whatever pack you decide, that’s your journey to own. So just do it.
Laisa: Yeah. That’s your journey to own! Yes! Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for your time today. I really appreciate it. Bye everyone!
Jules: Thank you so much!
